The Boxscore Geeks Show (general)

Professor David Berri returns to talk "Slaying the Trolls" the book he wrote with UMass' Vice Chancellor for Equity and Inclusion Nefertiti Walker. It deconstructs many of the myths in women sports, and touches on a lot of NBA and WNBA, which we love!

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Dre and Brian are back to talk

  • The opening round of the NBA Playoffs
  • Our thoughts on the various award finalists
  • The "rule changes" the NBA has had in regards to fouls
  • The WNBA!
  • Some thoughts on the FIDE Chess Candidates tournament
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Dre and Brian return to talk the end of the NBA Cup, if Joel Embiid is MVP, how Harden is doing on the Clippers, a couple of NBA scandals and feuds!

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Podcast Week - BSG, Ted Lasso (, and Star Wars CCG (), oh my!

State of the Western Conference, Including Highlights for

  • The Grizzlies
  • The Kings
  • The Mavericks

Deep Dive on the Denver Nuggets. Boring answer - Jamal Murray doesn’t look 100%

We skip March Madness Bracket talk but highly suggest: and if you want good advice

We discuss why the NCAA is a bad farm system, how the top draft picks aren’t NCAA players, and how players like Zion hurt themselves going to school.

We end Rookie of the Year and why Walker Kessler, currently ranked 4th at NBA dot coms Rookie of the Year race, is ranked 4th, behind two players we say are terrible.

Zach Edey is Brian’s potential Rookie of the Year for next year IF a team has the fortitude to play him.

Some shout-outs to high school basketball squads. Oakland High Basketball - Boys and Girls! And DePere’s Basketball Squad. 


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We talk Dre's post on NBA Award Trophies

Why Luka Doncic is the obvious MVP.

Some surprise NBA players like Lauri Markannen and Donovan Mitchell.

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Dr. Jonathan Weiler (@jonweiler) joins the show! Dr. Weiler is a professor at UNC Chapel Hill, specializing in economics and politics. He also has a great Substack - He also has the fantastic podcast "The Agony of Defeat" with Matt Andrews. He joins us to talk:

  • Kyrie Irving and the deafening silence in the NBA about antisemitism.
  • The New York Knicks and why the look bad and good at the same time, from someone that remembers when they were great.
  • The 2022 Midterms and a ton of politics. Don't worry, we get a fair number of sports numbers in.
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We're back to talk:

  • The start of the NBA season. Featured teams are the Nuggets, the Warriors, the Grizzlies, the Mavericks, the Pelicans, the Cavaliers, and the Jazz.
  • Is tanking a good strategy, and is Victor Wembanyama worth it?
  • Dre was wrong about Russell Westbrook :(
  • More chess controversy and why cheating is chess is a lot like Steph Curry's shot!

Tune in!


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We're back to talk about the relevant NBA trades and free-agent signings as of July 6th, 2022.

Special thanks to Spotrac for having such information readily available: - Trades - Free Agent tracker

Also, I review a substack piece I had on Jalen Brunson and contract rates in the modern CBA.

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Welcome Ben Guest for a new segment we'll be calling: "20 Second Timeout with Ben Guest", where we quickly discuss a topical subject that we don't want to wait for our "weekly" shows. Today's topic? The NBA Finals! 

Also, if you stick around to the end, I read my most recent substack article.

You can find Ben on Twitter as @bguest, his newsletter and podcast at, and his book "Zen and the Art of Coaching Basketball" is available on!

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We talk:

Steph Curry breaking the all-time three-point record, and why that won't stand for too long.

A lot about the Warriors' offense and how good Draymond Green is.

Issues with Rick Carlisle, coaching, the Mavericks, and "Analytic Success" stories in the NBA.

A brief farewell to the Nuggets title window.

A lot about how great Magnus Carlsen is and how bad the World Chess Championship structure is.


Check out "Old Smith/New Smith" on the Gamefully Unemployed Network -

Check out Ben Guest's Newsletter, particularly his recent podcasts on mindful coaching.

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First, you can purchase Ben's book at Amazon here -

Ben discusses an amazing journey where he coached a high school squad in Namibia and somehow turned them into a pro team that had the biggest upset run in KBA playoff history.

Make sure to follow Ben's newsletter and podcast at, and follow Ben on Twitter @bguest. Also tune in, or check out Boxscore Geeks -- -- for a fun contest around the book launch. 

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  • TLDR:
    The NBA Draft and bad decision-making.
  • Oscar Robertson and the NBA's history of labor negotiations.
  • David Berri's time at Forbes.
  • Stephon Marbury is a First-Ballot Hall of Famer!

Welcome to Office Hours with Professor David Berri. A podcast where David Berri stops by to discuss his research and writing and writing on sports. Today Dave hops on to talk about the NBA Draft, in particular, an update to an old study, and why he’s not optimistic about his Detroit Pistons in the 2021 draft. We also talk about Oscar Robertson and his fight for players' rights in the 70s. We review Dave’s time at Forbes, where he wrote almost 100 articles, and why it ended on rocky terms thanks to the NBA. One of my favorite thesis of this is episode is how we discuss Television’s impact on the “analytics movement.” And somehow Dave even manages to end on noting that Stephon Marbury absolutely belongs in the Naismith Hall of Fame first ballot, namely for his time in China!

I want to shout out some of the research mentioned on today’s show:

We discuss the NBA draft, specifically: The fifty-fifth Reading Online Sport Economics Seminar (ROSES) by Dave Berri of the Southern Utah University, presenting “Stereotypes and Hiring Decisions: Lessons from the NBA Draft”, put on by James Reade


This is based on research that appeared in Stumbling on Wins from David Berri, Martin Schmidt, and with help from Stephen Walters. Erica Hanserd helped by adding High School Ratings to make the research even more verbose!

We mention the senior paper from Greyson Hulet, a Southern Utah University student. It looks at the age curve by position! A topic I’m sure we’ll revisit in Greyson puts his paper online.

We talk about research from Jason Dana, which I first heard on Dan Ariely’s “Arming the Donkeys” podcast. The paper I believe they discuss is “Belief in the unstructured interview: The persistence of an illusion”

We specifically talk about Dave’s paper: Oscar Robertson, Antitrust, and the Fight Against Monopsony Power in the NBA

One correct - at one point I say in 53 of Michael Jordan’s playoff games, 44% were above average. Apologies, I meant 44 games, total which is a little over 80%!

Outro Music is Pure Magic by Chris Haugen

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Reviewing the economics and rationality behind what NBA teams look for in NBA players using Drew Timme.

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We talk Free Throws and NBA shooting "Advances" or lack thereof. The Smallball Rockets, how the NBA is wrestling, and more. Apologies on the late release, last week was hectic!

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We're back after a month full of sporadic life events. Brian says if we're a little off our game, it's akin to a James Harden hangover game!

We talk:

Some great user comments including: is the Big-Three Era gone? Are the Suns using bigs properly? Is Richaun Holmes good in Sacramento, and how the Pacers center looks alright.

A conspiracy theory about hand injuries in the NBA and if the Warriors are using it to help tank.

More Kevin Love trade rumors.

The Rockets finally correcting the mistake of signing Ryan Anderson.

A fun list of NBA Twitter debacles courtesy of Tyler Cowen.

Also plenty of tangents, so be sure to tune in to hear them!

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We talk:

Daryl Morey and China.

Big extensions! Did teams spend well on players like Bradley Beal and Buddy Hield?

Stat lessons using internet drama.

Is Klay worth the money?

Tune in!

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It's the offseason and our threat to be a political show happens, for one day at least! We talk:

<ore about the "right" way to do analytics, and compare last week's guest Greg Steele's work with bad metrics.

We also bring up the infamous Klay Thompson and if he's over or undervalued (spoiler, somewhere in the middle)

We discuss the 538 analytics of the 2016 presidential primary and also the presidency and kind of tie it to problems in NBA analytics. Also, if you were hoping for a political history lesson, this segment is for you!

We talk the Lakers and the Spurs and piece Dre wrote about their advantages and disadvantages.

We shout out Marcus Morris and Kawhi and some of the silly drama they've had this offseason.

Tune in!

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First, we have a sponsor! Sunshower is the place to go if you're looking for the ultimate cloud-based solution support. Go to and check em out!

Lots to discuss. We talk:

How the NBA should copy baseball's award structures. Shout out to iceman for the suggestion!

About a major college pay scandal that only marginally involves the NCAA.

How Giannis is cementing his MVP status and if the Bucks can win it all.

How the Clippers did fine in the Tobias Harris trade and will be a playoff threat?

How the Warriors are fine, they're fine, ok?

How the NBA might have some biased refs, and how that might be completely allowed.

Some conspiracy theories about how LeBron and the Pelicans "last second breakdowns" might have been planned.

We talk a great Todd Whitehead article on the Hot Hand and Klay Thompson. Spoiler alert, Dre didn't realize it had a second-half past an ad, so his opinion changes halfway through the show. Give it a full listen.

We also relate that to movie grosses, Captain Marvel, and a weird argument Dre got into with the creator of Deadpool!

Tune in!

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We talk:

  • Kenneth Faried starting for the Rockets and why it's amazing.
  • We talk Zion Williamson and the public attitude about paying college athletes. Brian notes this relates to concept of the Overton Window, which has nothing to do with former great Doug Overton.
  • The MIT Sloan Analytics Conference is coming up and one of our favorites Art Rondeau will be attending. We review some of his work and express our anger that only the Knicks have benefited from his knowledge.
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We talk how the NBA is normalizing using SRS.

We talk a lot of Houston, including Austin Rivers, Michael Carter-Williams, and James Harden.

We also talk about Chandler Parson and Jimmy Butler and why, no matter how frustrating they are, we don't side against the players.

We have a bunch of other tangents too as this week is a tune up show after two weeks off. Tune in!

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We talk:

Why Gregg Popovich's hatred of threes is nothing new. But it might lead to some new old analytical analysis.

Why the Bulls are still horribly run.

Why the Nuggets health woes suck, and Nick Young is not the answer.

Why the Bucks made a trade that does nothing, but we still like.

Tune in!

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We talk:

- Comments from last week show w/ topics like Taurean Prince, Jack McKinney, and Tyson Chandler.
- Why are the Bucks doing well?
- Steph Curry, Michael Jordan, and the "All they are" players.
- Enes Kanter on offensive rebounding.
- Fansided's spiffy new "My Top 50" NBA app.
- Tyson Chandler to the Lakers.
- Jimmy Butler's trade to Philadelphia.
- We meant to talk a lot about Melo but instead decided to talk ...
- The World Chess Championship! We're team Caruana, and it's currently a contentious match of ... three draws.

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Checkout for show writeups and for more tools!

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Check out for more tools and analysis.

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Check out for more tools and analysis.

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The NBA is back! Too much news to break it down easily. Check out for more tools and analysis.

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Check out for more tools and analysis.

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We're back! We talk Melo to OKC, Wade to Cleveland, and Trump attacking the NFL ... again. Tune in!

Check out for more tools and analysis.

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Check out for more tools and analysis.

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We talk the NBA Finals, ratings, and if Kyrie Irving is the next Kobe Bryant. Tune in! Check out for more analysis and tools.

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The NBA Playoffs, Durant's comments on parity in the playoffs, and the Raptors' Artificial Intelligence. Tune in! Check out for more tools and analysis.

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Check out for more analysis and tools.

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Go to for more stats and analysis!

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Don't worry, the Trump plan is sports related! Check out for more notes and NBA stats.

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The Southeast Division

Even more in a "lightning round"

Go to for complete notes.

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Full notes at

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Full notes at

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Dre, Patrick, and Brian talk the NBA offseason, the Olympics, and more. Full notes at

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Full notes at

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- Cam Newton and the Superbowl
- Daniel Bryan retirement
- Moneyballing Greedy Durant
- Kings minority owners unhappy with direction of franchise
- Derek Fisher firing
- The Michael Cage MVP Award

Full show notes at

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We talk DeMarcus Cousins, the recent Warriors/Spurs showdown, the David Blatt firing, and the NBA All-Star Game starting five announcement.

Full show notes at -

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Patrick and Brian are back to discuss the recent position adjustment on, why was the change made and why do we even need position adjustments to evaluate player production in the first place?

Full show notes here -


Watch us live Mondays at 9:30pm EST at

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The Geeks talk the greatness that was Steve Nash, the prospect that is Nerlens Noel, and who the heck is Carey Scurry?

Full notes here -

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We talk DeMarcus Cousins' "stardom", the Superbowl, and if the Hawks are for real. See - - for full notes.

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We talk bad management in the NBA, which means we spend a lot of time talking the Thunder. Also, are the Hawks truly "starless?"

Full notes here -

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We talk more about implicit racism, the Jeff Green trade, the Atlanta Hawks, and Patrick gets on his soapbox about the Timberwolves.

See for complete show notes.

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It's possible sports journalism and advanced stats will never gel. What's the deal with Kobe Bryant's current fall in the eyes of the media? Josh Smith was cut by the Pistons and we're elated!

Visit for the complete show notes on today's show!

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We talk internet entitlement, Kevin Draper's expose on Adrian Wojnarowski, and the amazing Golden State Warriors. See for complete show notes.

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This Week's Show

Dre is back to talk: the Daryl Morey and Mark Cuban Feud; FCC changes to the NFL's blackout restrictions; and Vegas' over/under odds for the NBA Season.


This Week's Poll

Show Notes

The Morey/Cuban Feud

Morey and Cuban have had some words for each other lately.

In the offseason, the Mavs made it personal by signing Chandler Parsons.

The Rockets tried to fire back and sign Dirk Nowitzki.

My thoughts:

Brian made sure to point out that Ariza may be an upgrade to Parsons.

Patrick Beverley is an easy replacement to Jeremy Lin

Losing Omer Asik isn't likely a big deal as Terence Jones seems to be a great replacement

The Rockets have seemed to be fortunate that they've had some missteps that are immediately erased. Case in point losing Lowry but then immediately getting Harden.

The FCC and the NFL's Blackout Restrictions

Last week I talked about the NBA being foolish with their digital rights.

The FCC unanimously voted to remove the NFL's blackout of local games if it stadium tickets don't sell out.

Of course, this doesn't mean change will be quick. One or more TV stations, who already earn lots from the NFL, will have to choose to air the games.

Teams do benefit from local TV deals, but not all markets all equal. Making the overall reach of each league is sadly not the goal of every owner.

Vegas Over/Under for the NBA Season.

The Over/Under odds for the NBA season have been released.

It's become an annual tradition for Patrick to hit Vegas and put some money down on the NBA season.

Patrick gave his thoughts on the Timberwolves already. Take the over!

We discuss quite a few teams. Tune in to hear more!

Reminder, the Spurs' minute allocation last season has never been done before by a championship squad!


Jonathan Weiler (@jonweiler) is a must follow and must read. Check out the ESPN Watch. This week his discussion on the University of Michigan and Shane Morris earned our shout out. We shout Jonathan out so regularly here I said we should just give him a lifetime achievement award and be done. Jonathan said he'd prefer the weekly praise.

Dean Oliver (@DeanO_ESPN) was recently hired by the Sacramento Kings. We're huge fans of Dean and there couldn't be a better person in an NBA front office. Of course, we've been critical of the Kings lately, so the bar just got higher for them this season.

Billy Beane! After a heartbreaking loss, the A's get to keep the stupid "can't win in the postseason" narrative. The A's did some great moves this season, and were obviously a playoff worthy team. Always next year.

A note on predictions

Last season we gave our predictions for the NBA season. I give us full credit for explaining our reasoning (minutes, and how we thought players would play.) However, we gave odds on many things like hitting the over/under, making the playoffs, etc. These odds were wildly off. We are critical of models around here a lot. We have to take our own medicine here. Our confidence model last season was not up to snuff. That said, I think trying to guess minutes and as a result wins is really rough. Still, people enjoy it, so we'll have them again.

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This Week's Show

Dre flies solo and talks NBA ratings, parity, and Bill Simmons suspension.


This Week's Poll

Show Notes

Parity and TV Ratings

This offseason I got to thinking about the value of NBA parity in relationship to ratings thanks to great stuff from Ethan Sherwood-Strauss.

Bleacher Report noted that the NBA's ratings in its three biggest markets dropped.

The Nielsen Ratings say the same thing.

The NBA currently has teams in San Antonio, Indiana, and Oklahoma with top talent. Meanwhile, the Lakers, Bulls, Nets, and Knicks have started to struggle.

It turns out not every market is equal in regard to available fans and income. And treating every team as equal places a value on certain fans.

The NBA's decision of where to place teams is where local governments are willing to help pay for stadiums. This is less than ideal.

NBA Digital Media

Kevin Draper's great piece on how the NBA is squandering their edge for their upcoming TV deal, especially their digital media.

NBA League Pass Broadband/Mobile has been a joke of a product for years. Oh yeah, the price went up this year too!

Even the WWE, which can feel like it's run by carnies, has a better grasp on digital media than the NBA!

Blackout restrictions are stupid. Although on September 30th, some may go away!

Bill Simmons' Suspension

Brandon Marshall had an awkward press conference.

Still, Roger Goodell's was worse.

Bill Simmons was suspended for calling Goodell a liar, in a curse-word laden rant.

A reminder about considering ESPN as a news source:

Oh yeah, ESPN has a $15 billion deal with the NFL. Conflict of interest anyone?

Brian has pointed out that ESPN "analysts" are trained to get views by being outrageous. So it's somewhat disingenuous of ESPN to act outraged when they do.

In the Wages of Wins, Dave's first story was how fans come back after strikes/lockouts. The reality is that fans may act mad but still comeback.

If you want ESPN to listen, talk with your wallet, not your Tweets:

Don't forget Goodell has been worse answering questions on concussions in front of congress.

Shout Outs

Robert Currence for his great comments on defense!

Artis Gilmore, who is one of the biggest snubs in Hall of Fame history.

And, of course, Bill Simmons for saying what needed to be said and showing some cracks in ESPN.


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This Week's Show

Welcome back for part two with special guests: the That Thing You Like Podcast! Brian Shirlaw (@brian_rs) and Chris Baxter(@cbax) finish our marathon discussion on wrestling with power rankings and shout outs.

Make sure to catch part one.


The That Thing You Like Podcast is great, I'd definitely add it to your feed. Make sure to like That Thing You Like's Facebook page and of course follow them on Twitter at @TTYLShow.

This Week's Poll

A filler rerun in our normal spot! This week's real poll has spoilers for this week's episode, so I put it below the notes, scroll down at your own peril!

Show Notes

Power Rankings

A staple of the TTYL show is power rankings. In a draft like fashion, the hosts pick their three favorite characters in a pop-culture item. Sometimes, they fail, like Chris's selection in Game of Thrones... Check out 1:03:55 to see what I mean.

Brian Foster played the part of commissioner, unlike ping-pong balls, our randomizer is a bit simpler.

Great TTYL episode on Legend of Korra.

One key to good power rankings is constructing a good team, so we had some rules.

  • Pick three wrestlers from any era.
  • Two of your wrestlers have to be a tag team together, with a good reason.
  • Two of your wrestlers have to be in a feud (This can also be the tag team).

Round 1

Chris selected Mick Foley(@realmickfoley)

Brian selected the Rock(@TheRock)

Dre selected Triple H(@TripleH)

Brian points out the Rock is amazing on social media. Definitely worth a follow.

Triple H has a great documentary you can catch on Netflix.

Triple H tore his quad in a match. Logically, you keep going.

Round 2

Dre selected Chyna(@ChynatheIcon)

Brian selected Daniel Bryan(@WWEDanielBryan)

Chris selected Bayley(@itsBayleyWWE)

Vince Russo penned a great piece on why Chyna belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Chris Jericho interview about power of losing and putting others over.

The Rock lost to the Hurricane for example.

Bayley about how she'd hug the Undertaker

Chris explains how Charlotte vs. Bayley was great match, even though Bayley lost.

Round 3

Chris selected R.D. Evans(@Oh_Robert_Evans)

Brian selected A.J. Lee(@WWEAJLee)

Dre selected Andre the Giant.

Chris has a hilarious strip on people having the same name.

A.J. Lee was not the women's champ when we recorded this podcast. Observe Brian's precognitive abilities!

James Adomian had a different take on pro-wrestling.

Sadly, Vince McMahon has not handled openly gay wrestlers well.

The NFL had a surprisingly progressive commercial.

Brian did throw out that the WWE is getting better in regards to female wrestling feuds. Although, calling them Divas, not the best start.

Cyndi Lauper did a music video for the Goonies, which has virtually nothing to do with the movie; that has a cameo from Andre, the Giant!

@boxbrown has a biography comic for Andre the Giant.

The original streak ending. Andre lost to Hogan in Wrestlemania 3.


Brian's team is Daniel Bryan and A.J. Lee as "Team Adult Relationship" to feud with the Rock.

Chris's team is Bayley and R.D. Evans as "Team Hug-Friends" to feud with crazy Cactus Jack.

Dre's team is Chyna and Andre the Giant as "Team Wonders of the World" to feud with Triple H.

We discuss the Woo vs. Yes! poll. While TTYL sides with Yes!, the poll has Woo! up by a large margin.

We agree, all great podcasts need a great Brian.

This Week's Poll

Shout Outs

Chris shouts out Jordan Bowman(@jBowmancouver) and Wyatt Arndt(@TheStanchion). They write for the Province paper at the Legion of Blog. They have several podcasts: the Legion of Blogcast -- At the Movies...10 Years Later

Brian shouts out Chris Baxter(@cbax) for his great webcomic at, making him a three-time recipient!

Brian shouts out Erika Moen(@ErikaMoen), for her great webcomic, which is a perfect blend of sex-ed and funny. She also has a great Patreon Account, which lets you support her work. Seriously, an easy investment that's well worth it.

Erika Moen was on the That Thing You Like podcast, and it was amazing. Brian leaks that she'll be back on soon with a subject they'll reveal at a later date.

I shout out the Cracked Podcast, specifically the recent one on statistics, which delves into sports a ton.

I shout out the great documentary Stripped, which talks about comics. Dave Kellet(@davekellet) and Fred Schroeder(@FredSchroeder) did a great job. The sale I mention is over sadly, but it's still easily worth the cost.


Intro Music: Test Drive by Zapac

Outro Music: Turn it Up by CFO

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This Week's Show

Special guests this week: the That Thing You Like Podcast! Brian Shirlaw (@Brian_RS) and Chris Baxter(@cbax) are on to talk podcasting, Chris' webcomic -- -- and wrestling!


This Week's Poll

Thanks for helping us decide, "Woo!" beat out "What?" to face "Yes!"

Show Notes

That Thing You Like! TTYL for short.

We start the show discussing Chris and Brian's amazing podcast. Seriously, check it out!

Tune in for a fun discussion on starting a podcast, lessons learned, and growing pains

Podcast Love: The Nerdist!

That Thing You Like started around the great reality TV Show "Strip Search," which found the next best web comic. If you haven't seen it, check it out!

There was a great TTYL episode on "How I Met Your Mother," which helped spawn some writing from me on it, as well as a BSG podcast on it too!

TTYL's hero is Film Crit Hulk(@FilmCritHulk). He actually liked the How I Met Your Mother finale....

TTYL has had some great guests from "Strip Search" on the show including:

It's definitely easy to get flustered as a podcaster when people you admire agree to be on your show. You can tell with me when Paul Shirley was a guest

Podcast Love: The Short Corner Podcast

Oh yeah, I was on TTYL to discuss "Strip Search."

Podcast Love: The Chainsaw Suit podcast is great. They started around the same time TTYL did. We're all big fans.

Podcast Lesson Learned: Listen to your audio as you record. Irony, we forgot to make sure Brian Foster's feed was active this show...

Podcast Lesson Learned: It's ok to go over predetermined limits. It's ok to split up long interviews too.

Podcast Love: "You Made It Weird" with Pete Holmes

Podcast Love: Kevin Smith, I think he has 20 or 30 at this point.

Podcast Love: The Steve Austin Show - Unleashed!

Podcast Love: Talk is Jericho

Great TTYL Episode on sports and sports fandom, including geeks and stats.

Great TTYL Episode on "Cabin in the Woods"

Great TTYL Episode on "Seconds" by Bryan Lee O'Malley

Also, make sure to check out "Seconds" by Brian Lee O'Malley.

Great TTYL Episode on "Love Actually", a great new webcomic

If you liked that one, check out for more!

Tune in for a surprise intervention I give to Chris about being too humble as an artist.

Also, a hilarious Penny-Arcade on interventions.

Square Space advertises on every podcast. Even on ones they don't pay for ad this one...

Kris Straub's Broodhollow is another great webcomic.

Kevin Smith's sister gave him some good advice when he said he wanted to be a film maker.

OK, be a filmmaker. Don’t think ‘I want to be’, just think that you are a filmmaker who just hasn’t made a film yet.


There are a ton of great documentaries out there on wrestling. Many are or were on Netflix at one point.

Great TTYL "Iron Man" Episode on Wrestlemania XXX with Tavis Maiden

Undertaker's streak ending was hit and miss. Chris Jericho had a good take on it on his podcast.

Chris would have preferred to see Bo Dallas end Undertaker's streak.

We talk a little about the WWE since the TTYL show on it. Daniel Bryan beating Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania 31 is the only logical conclusion to Brian.

"Beyond the Mat" is a great documentary on wrestling.

The WWE seems a bit trapped in the past. Pro-sports has the fact that age means old players stop being relevant. Wrestling is a bit different.

The issues in major sports - concussions, bankruptcy, etc. are just as bad, if not worse, in wrestling. Ric Flair, for instance, is still wrestling because he needs the money.

For the complaints we give to most major CBAs; wrestling is worse!

"Wrestling is a billion dollar industry that is fun like it's a f***ing carnival" - Brian

It's worth wondering if the concussion issues with the NFL will also impact wrestling.

I was lucky enough to meet Chris Nowinski "at Sloan", who has done a done in concussion research.

The NBA's big contract deal could be huge. Except, oh yeah, they're horribly behind the curve when it comes to digital rights and streaming.

I still refuse to watch this clip on Giancarlo Stanton getting hit in the face with a baseball.

Wrestling, Canadians? Of course, we talk the Montreal Screwjob! This is nothing new, Arturo, and I had a long discussion on this.

Jim Cornette shoots on the Montreal Screw Job.

TTYL is all about the storytelling in pop-culture; the ideal superhero movie is talking in a diner.

Podcast Love: The Attitude Era Podcast

We give some love to Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart in Wrestlemania 13.

The 'Wrestling is fake' has stopped doing it for me as an argument, because almost all media and entertainment is scripted or has rules and constraints.

Blurring the lines on sports and scripted, TTYL has an episode on 'Friday Night Lights.'

Podcast Love: The Cracked Podcast

Cracked Podcast episode on how movies follow the same narrative beats.

Randy Savage and Ricky Steamboat had their fight for Wrestlemania 3 incredibly scripted.

We have nothing but the utmost respect for Jim Ross. I still can't understand his firing.

Jim Cornette talks about how the end of the match should have emotion and not just feeling bad. The Undertaker streak ending didn't succeed in that regard.

What if Joss Whedon took the reigns writing for WWE?

The WWE has definitely had behind the scene grudges. This arguably adds to fan enjoyment.

Vince McMahon has been the mad dictator of WWE. Of course, other sports have similar figures.

"Gilmore Girls is being released on Netflix. #GilmoreGirls" - Chris

More show love: Nostalgia Critic and Nostalgia Chick.

True Lies is another movie that gets awkward to remember liking on introspection.

And wow, that's the most links I've done in a show writeup! We're only halfway done too. Tune in on Monday for Wrestling Power Rankings and Shout Outs.

Direct download: bsg-36a.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 4:13am EDT

This Week's Show

The Geeks are back to talk Ray Rice, the Hawks, and how to grade teams in the offseason.



This Week's Poll

Show Notes

Ray Rice and misconceptions with domestic abuse.

Patrick wrote a piece about the misconceptions on domestic abuse in regards to the Ray Rice incident.

Here is the Vox piece Patrick references that elaborates the point.

I think Patrick sums up the problem with Stephen A. Smith's remarks best: he is spreading misinformation that is hurting those that need help in regards to domestic abuse.

Arturo points out an uncomfortable second part of this. League of Denial, for instance, makes the notes that concussions may impact mental health. And who knows if Ray Rice has been impacted by brain damage.

An uncomfortable point Patrick brings up: The NFL is not doing anything to help or protect Janay Palmer.

The Atlanta Hawks and Racism

I wrote about why Bruce Levenson's email about the Hawks ticket sales is racist and ignores very simple data.

Danny Ferry's remarks were either racist, or Ferry is very bad at his job. Patrick says either is a firing offense.

The Caroline Scale

Ari Caroline (@aricaroline) got us all excited with an email thread about how to rank teams in the offseason. Using the following scale (now named the Caroline Scale):

  • 1 - the team fell apart.
  • 2 - the team got worse.
  • 3 - the team stayed the course.
  • 4 - the team improved.
  • 5 - the team had a major upgrade

The second part is to make sure the average grade for all the teams in the NBA is 3, gives us all a fun way to grade the offseason.

Patrick took the first crack with the scale and rated the Timberwolves at 2. That's remarkable given the fact that they lost Love.

Arturo takes offense to Patrick calling J.J. Barea the worst point guard in the NBA. If the shoe fits...

We go in major depth about the Wolves, tune in!

"If the Pelicans could find a way to get Austin Rivers to disappear, they'd be a 5." - Arturo

If Derrick Rose comes back, the Bulls could be a strong 4. Famous last words by Patrick.

Arturo thinks the Denver Nuggets could make a major jump this year.


Ari Caroline (@aricaroline) for the amazing Caroline Scale.

Bomani Jones for his amazing Tweet.

Christopher Baxter (@cbax) for his spot on comic about how rooting for teams has uncomfortable social side effects. Check out his webcomic every Monday and Thursday at

Anita Sarkeesian (@femfreq) for her video "Women as Background Decoration"

Zoe Quinn (@TheQuinnspiracy) for her handling of "Gamer Gate." Check out her game Depression Quest.

Ethan Strauss (@SherwoodStrauss) for his Tweets on Stephen Curry and Chauncey Billups

Direct download: bsg-35.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 1:37pm EDT

This Week's Show

We're back to talk the finalized Kevin Love trade, and what it means for Philadelphia? Also, Kevin Love's exit from Minnesota and the parting words from Glen Taylor. Finally, we return to an old well: defense


This Week's Poll

Show Notes

The Kevin Love Trade: the 76ers?

The 76ers dumped Thaddeus Young's contract. This means they now have no bad contracts. In fact, the entire 76ers roster could buy you one Kobe. We think the 76ers are better off than the Lakers. We should stress the 76ers aren't "tanking" by losing. They're tanking by not overpaying for wins.

One note, when it comes to paying for wins, teams that have a short window (see the Heat last year, and the Thunder), you pay to win!

Tangent: Best Chucker Bench Player?

This topic came up during the show. Arturo couldn't let it lie, so here are some great names of players off the bench that still managed to waste tons of possessions when they were in:

  • Walter Davis
  • Del Curry
  • Ricky Pierce

Tangent: Glen Taylor's Dan Gilbert Impression

The Timberwolves' owner had less than kind words for Kevin Love on the way out.

The NBA is just another example of how rich people do not have the same reality as others.

The Wolves put up some historically bad teams around Kevin Love.

An easy explanation for Kevin Love's haters

Just remember the Joe Smith illegal contract by the Minnesota Timberwolves whenever you think the team is well run.

What makes this situation amazing is Patrick wrote about it years ago!

Kevin Love has a good role model. Kevin Garnett showed what happens to those that stay in Minnesota.

I parrot Arturo's "logic" and say I think Kyrie Irving can become better if he plays less of a point guard and more of a shooting guard. We'll have to see.

Tangent: Glen Taylor's Dan Gilbert Impression

Arturo did some help on Basketball Breakdown about Defense. We have a long discussion about defense, especially as it's a common lob at Kevin Love.

On defense, like much of basketball, being tall is a huge edge. I mentioned it could be a reason Kobe had animosity to Shaq.

We get into the notion of "diminishing responsibilities" on defense. Players like James Harden may not excel at D, but that really isn't their job!

Tune in, we have a long conversation on this.


Danny Leroux(@DannyLeroux), who keeps letting Arturo onto the RealGM Podcast

Coach Nick(@bballbreakdown), who worked with Arturo on Defense.

Arturo, for the amazing 76ers trade above.

Chris Baxter(@cbax) from the great That Thing You Like podcast. Not only does he now have an amazing webcomic (check it out at but also for starting the pizza vs. taco debate with Brian Shirlaw(@Brian_RS).

Myself, for this *hilarious* tweet. I know, absuse of power!

Hubie Brown, who I forget as we wind down. He had amazing coach knowledge!

Direct download: bsg-34.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 11:40pm EDT


Andres Alvarez(@nerdnumbers)

Produced by Brian Foster(@boxscorebrian)

This week's poll

Show Notes

Brian was referencing this hit by Vlad Guerrero. Baseball's a silly sport.

Historical Numbers

Patrick's amazing work means we have NBA Wins Produced numbers back to the 1970s!. That's as good as it's going to get too sadly. When you see other advanced stats go earlier, the "trick" they use is to make up guesses for player stats.

Oh yeah, Patrick also added a way to compare players' career stats. Check it out!

We have a lot to say about the best 50 NBA seasons. How about that Rodney McCray?

I manage to reference my 92 Dream Team poster. Looking at his numbers, I'll take back my dig at Chris Mullin. That said, Christian Laettner had no business on that team. Now, that aside, Dennis Rodman was the best player in the NBA in 1992.

Robert Horry Hall of Fame

Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? We've been arguing about this all week.

We get on a tangent about why the Hall of Fame's "lax standards" and the BCS are good things in terms of entertainment for fans. Compelling playoffs are good, as we've written about before.

On Robert Horry, the number of players the Hall lets in makes the standards lax enough to get him in. That said, many other players need to go first, Mutombo? How about Brent Barry? Oh yeah, Horace Grant gets snubbed from his contributions to Michael Jordan's legacy.

Toronto Raptors and Drake

Drake trying to lure Devin Durant to the Toronto Raptors resulted in a $25,000 fine. What's worth noting is this is not normal in most fields. In areas like tech, the idea of people being allowed to job search is the norm. Companies are expected to try and woo talent. In pro-sports we have people worrying about collusion when friends talk about working together. 

An example of actual tampering was the Joe Smith saga in Minnesota. Of course, that was poorly executed even before it was punished.

Boxscore Geeks Drinking Game

Anyone with graphic aptitude that wants to make a poster for this? We're starting to get a few rules together (add yours in the comments below)

  • Anytime we bring up Kevin Love
  • Anytime we bring up the "tech industry"
  • Anytime we compare something to professional wrestling.
  • Anytime Dre's dogs make noise.

Shout Outs

Brent Barry(@Barryathree) for his love of our Horry piece and bringing up True Shooting numbers on Twitter.

John Floyd(@baddynoshoes) and Andrew Sutton do amazing work in the comments. Thank you!

Rodney McCray gets an official shout out for stumping us by his great play.

Jonathan Weiler(@jonweiler) He keeps making the list! Again, checkout the ESPN Watch.

The people, protestors, and media of Ferguson earn a shout out. We are absolutely against the travesties of the Ferguson police. Our support goes out to those that whose rights have been oppressed and those that have kept reporting and protesting.


Intro Music - Test Drive by Zapac.

Outro Music - Simply the Best by Tina Turner

Direct download: bsg-33.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 2:52am EDT

Video Show


Andres Alvarez(@nerdnumbers)

Produced by Brian Foster(@boxscorebrian)

This week's poll

Show Notes

The Olympics/Talent Evaluation

Patrick's piece on Mason Plumlee vs. DeMarcus Cousins and Zach Lowe's piece on evaluating bigs lead to a discussion about valuable skills and player evaluation.

Evaluating things like Chris Bosh's midrange game as "good" is iffy. Yes, he's above average at it, but it's not neccesarily better than average threes or layups.

My general problem with modern advanced stats is we can zoom in on players, but do not understand the magnitude of their skill/deficiency.

Forty three players shot over four threes a game with > 35% last season!

The Pacers and 538

Paul George is a rare talent in that he's a good scorer but doesn't quite get the respect I'd expect.

Case in point, this 538 post on it!

Nate Silver's recent piece on Paul George and injuries is interesting. That said, the stats and methods Nate uses don't seem cohesive or vetted. In short, I expect more.

Richard Feynman sums up a lot of the issues in bad studies.

My issues with RPM.


Patrick asks if Philadelphia is the first team to "tank correctly" in the modern draft.

Devin Dignam on how tanking used to work in the NBA.

I love the logic that the Wizards have been tanking for three decades, and the solution is to tank some more!

The reason the Wizards are "bad at tanking" is not being able to give up on top draft picks when they don't turn into stars.

Becky Hammon and Good Management

I'm a little skeptical about how the mainstream media will scrutinize Becky Hammon. I've written about this before. It's pessmimist and depressing but it's also possible this is tokenism, not a start of a change.

Kevin Draper has written about how people "in charge" in the NBA may have less control than we think.

Dan Pink has a great TED talk on what motivates people.

Tangent - Drinking Game

We've got a few common things happen in the show regularly. Feel free to tweet us more suggestions but here are a few suggestions for a Boxscore Geeks drinking game:

  • Every time Dre's dogs shake their collars/bark take a drink.
  • Every time we mention Kevin Love take a drink.

Shout Outs

Aaron Montgomery for this great tweet:

Taye Diggs(@tayediggs) for making my day by following me on Twitter.


Intro Music - Test Drive by Zapac.

Outro Music - Math by Supernova.

Direct download: bsg-31.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 4:33am EDT

Video Show


Weekly Poll

Show Notes

Best "Robins" in the NBA?

Arturo wrote a piece on the thirty best "Robins" in NBA history. Have we mentioned Dennis Rodman is underrated? Also, he's a Batman more than a Robin.

Hakeem is an all-time center, but his amazing playoffs performance against David Robinson and Shaquille O'Neal may give him the irrational boost to greatest ever.

Correction: Rodman only won two Defensive Player of the Year awards. I think being great at defense should be a shoe-in for Hall of Fame first ballot voting. However, as I've discussed about Dikembe Mutombo, I don't think it is.

Also, Ben Wallace is likely to be snubbed, and as a reminder, he was the star of the "starless Pistons" that won it all. And that's using conventional methods too!

I argue that the term Robin to describe great second players is silly.

For some good "Robins": Arturo thinks Mo Cheeks is mad underrated. Also, Mario and Nash are a great duo that doesn't get enough love.

Reminder, Golden State gifted the Celtics three rings in the 80s. Seriously.

You probably need a star to win. The Sonics in 79 are the only team to really buck this trend.

On the Run and Gun Suns, it's worth noting they could have had Luol Deng, when he was still amazing, instead of Joe Johnson. Ouch.

The Lakers and the Western Landscape

The Lakers' GM Mitch Kupchack says the Lakers could make the playoffs next season. Arturo kindly reminds us the Lakers don't play in the East. And even that would be a stretch.

Nick Young said he'd be happy to be Kobe's Robin. I say Nick Young is the only person to use that term correctly! Reminder, Nick Young is terrible!

We talk bad Robins -- including Jason Todd. I argue the Red Hood storyline makes him a good character. Arturo counters the retcon there was terrible. No disagreement. However, check out Under the Redhood, it's a great DC animated film.

Arturo runs down his vision for the 2014-2015 Western Conference. Tune in!

The Thunder lost Thabo Sefolosha. Of course, if they'd finally just stop giving Perkins so many minutes, they'll be fine with Nick Collison and Steve Adams.

For the Rockets, we think Ariza is an upgrade. Of course, as Shawn Furyan points out - the worst stretch of Ariza's career was in Houston.

The Mavericks seem to have stolen Phoenix's medical staff.

Reminder, the Trail Blazers won 54 games but had a crazy strong stretch where Wes Matthews and Damian Lillard were being historically good from three.

Arturo gives hope to Denver fans.

When it comes to the Lakers and the Kings, the Kings win out because they have DeMarcus Cousins, and Jordan Hill isn't going to get playing time.

We think the Lakers have a legitimate shot of 24 missed shots in a quarter happening at some point this season.

We leave the East for later. A point though, the Cavaliers need to do a little more to be better than they were last time LeBron took them to a finals.

Arturo makes a bad joke, which we compare to Josh Smith's amazing ability to keep shooting airballs.

Position Adjustment

We talk a little more about position adjustment following Patrick's recent piece on "small ball". The position adjustment and WaR crowd have two basic points that seem contrary to me:

  • Positional adjustments in the NBA is a hugely complicated problem that can't be simply modeled (which I don't really agree with)
  • The economics of a market to pay for talent in major sports is a simple problem that can be modeled with a few trivial formulas. (Which I also don't agree with)

These two ideas are very much at odds. No economist would tell you microeconomics is a trivial and simple field. At the same time, few will act as if positions in the NBA are really that complex.

Some more fun notes - most players in the NBA are overpaid! This is simply because the salary cap restricts stars, and rookies are wildly underpaid. Arturo points out that this is good politics, as if most players are overpaid, they're less likely to be upset. 

Shout Outs

Daniel Leroux (@DannyLeroux) of RealGM was the inspiration behind the Robins piece. Also, Ian Levy(@HickoryHigh) at Nylon Calculus gets some love here.

Coach Nick (@bballbreakdown) gets a shout out for teaching a clinic on the Triangle Offense in New York.

Krishna Narsu(@knarsu3) gets a shout out for some amazing charts on how Kobe and LeBron act as the shot clock winds down.

Brian gives a shout out to the Warriors for helping out the 80s Celtics.

Brian also gives a shout out to Arturo! Not just for his great work, but for an amazing Tweet about Sharknado.

Hope you enjoyed the show, we'll see you next week!

Direct download: bsg-30.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 8:25am EDT


Video Show

Show Notes

Replacement Level Players

Nate Silver started off the WaR discussion using a bit of flawed logic.

Patrick posted a reply to the problems with this.

This brought in some SABR folks to give bad analysis.

And finally Dave Berri, who has a PhD in economics and is a tenured professor, wrote a long piece explaining the philosophies and pitfalls with WaR

Which lead to even more bad (but agreeable) analysis from SABR

We had much more to say on the subject, of course!

Being "average" in the NBA is valuable, as becoming a top NBA athlete is difficult.

If a super "rare" player is available, you take the deal!

In terms on "minimum wage" players, there's tons of salary constraints due to the CBA.

Even overseas players are not as easily attainable as you might think, thanks to FIBA.

The D-League players that have come to the NBA haven't really been that stellar. In short, the D-League isn't a "replacement" level factory.

And of course college players have restrictions on when they can join the NBA and which teams they can sign for.

Basically, there are not just "free markets" to tap for "replacement players".

Something many don't consider is the opportunity cost a player imposes. Every dollar they cost, minute they play, and shot they take is coming from another player.

Excellent quote by Patrick

"If you come at me and tell me something that is factual wrong, and call me dumb for my point of view, then my tolerance level to have an actual, rational conversation with you is going to be pretty low."

Kevin Love

We've been on the Kevin Love bandwagon for a while.

We had quite a long discussion about the ridiculous concept of players "padding their stats" and defense. Tune in to listen.

The Wolves were an above average team in defense last season, for what that's worth.

A "defense" of Klay Thompson is his defense on Golden State, which again, I don't agree with.

I've had various issues with defense. I'm not 100% behind Synergy stats, but I give them more weight because unlike other stats, we know why the rate players how they do.

Shout Outs!

Nick Haugen (@HaugenND) and TangoTiger! Thanks for being a great fan and inspiring good work, respectively.

Direct download: bsg-29.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 5:49am EDT

Your Hosts

Video Show

Weekly Poll

Show Notes

World Cup

Yeah, that ending for Brazil was pretty rough huh? Oh yeah, economists don't think governments should pay for the World Cup. Moving on.

The New TV Deal and the New CBA

Arturo wrote a piece about how the increased TV revenue from the next deal could have large implications for current "bad" contracts. There was a great Sloan talk on this, which was apparently not recorded!

Of course, signing players with "replacable skill sets" to eat up your cap space and minutes is still not wise.

"You can't trade Wiggins for Love, because someday he might be as good as Love!" - Patrick

Seriously Kevin Love has some historic numbers. That's even with his "bad teams".

Notice that Klay and Wiggins are both, oddly, more valuable on the roster than they were as nebulous draft picks. Sunk cost anyone?

By the way, if Love plays next to Bron he'll probably improve because Bron passes!

Free Agency

LeBron returns to Cleveland. Oh yeah, it cost Dwyane Wade $11.5 million.

Call us Quixotic, but we'll be betting the under on Indiana again this year.

We hit a lot of free agents, so tune in to listen. Also, we rant about Kevin Love even more!

We loved Lance Stephenson, and every team but Charlotte royally messed this one up.

Shout Outs

Dean Oliver (@DeanO_ESPN). I had accidently left his book of my background shelf for the first half of the show. Sorry Dean!

Robbie, who commented back in February that the Lakers would overpay Nick Young.

Zachary Bennett (@ZacharyBD)- the "light at the end of the tunnel" for T-Wolves fans.

Ari Caroline (@aricaroline) and Layne Vashro (@VJL_BBall) for their good insights on Summer League.

Dave Berri (@wagesofwins), for reasons I'm not sure Dave would agree with.

Enjoy the show, see you next week!


Direct download: 2014-07-14-big-three-return.mp3
Category:general -- posted at: 12:31pm EDT